I guess you are all aware that Israel has already attacked the Palestinian in the Gaza Strip for kidnapping one of their soldiers. Now Lebanon pulled the same trick and now are under attack. http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/mideast_conflict

There seems to be an Iran connection via Syria to Hezbollah behind these kidnappings of Israeli soldiers. I agree with some theorists that this is a distractionary move by Iran to prevent the clamp down on their nuclear program. The majority of analysts agree that Iran posed a greater threat to the U.S. than Iraq ever did. This looks like a mess that is only going to escalate.

Slimjim,
wow, nice bittorrent ratio!

never imagined i'd be discussing politics on a bittorrent site. heh heh.

the latest development is just the newest conflict in a territorial dispute that had its roots decades ago.

as long as any territory is in dispute, it's likely that nations have long memories and it's a matter of time before it blows up again.
witness the falklands islands, the spratley islands, the gaza strip.

and there're strips of land where taiwan, china and japan all claim soverignity upon.

even pakistan and india lay claim to adjacent lands.

it's just that in some situations, things come to a head and it leads out to all out war.

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yea
see the thing is that lebanon as been under bombing attacks for a slong as i can remember, they have never jsut been so serious, and now they are getting very extreme and out of hand
i dont know why they do it, its dumb
lets just hope the UN can stop it

The current "conflict" isn't territorial, contrary to what andreww38 said. It's about Israel fighting terrorists and defending it's right to exist. If Lebanon chosen to harbour terrorists, if terrorists made themselves home there - too bad for Lebanon.

The biggest problem is that Israel is the ONLY country that actually does something against terrorist threats (and does so while being constantly booed by UN and EU (and up untill recently - US). Why do you think terrorists cover their faces? Do you think they are concerned about US intelligence? They don't give a big hairy rat's butt about it. Mossad they fear! In early 90's Israel started to loose it's grip because of the period of relative calmness (all they wanted is a peacefull and productive life). But then bombing started again and now I can see that Israel getting back on track. That's godd news. The bad news though is that the world still differentiate between terrorists (whom they call militants, guerillas, fighters - just to avoid that "terrorist" word and Arab countries that surround Israel and that still claim that their main goal is to wipe Israel off the face of this planet and massacre every single Jew. And still we see the same scenario - Syria, Jordan, Lebanon supplying, harbouring, training terrorists, Israel trying to retaliate, the world "outraged by Israel's actions", Israel give up because they are civilized people and don't want to be savages like those who surround them, the world happily give money to "poor civilians", money that goes straight to terrorists and the vicious circle starts again.
And PLEASE, somebody - explain me the meaning of the word "Palestinian"?????

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"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist" Dom Helder Camara

Israel's military action in Lebanon has so far killed 203 civilians.

Regarding proportional response, the capture of two, armed soldiers in no way justifies the bombing and slaughter of civilians. Please dont assume that this is an anti Israel message. I have long admired how the Israelis have turned a piece of desert into an oasis through long hard work, and unlike the general feeling in that part of the world, they without question have the right to exist. But others in that area have the right to co-exist.

It struck me that this over reaction maybe in part a ploy to drag Iran into the fray and thus negate any need for America to go via the UN to appropriate its oil fields.

I guess only time will tell how this pans out but I can't believe anyone can defend the completely disproportionate response of the Israelis. 203 civilians dead for two soldiers, didn't the Nazis get up to that kind of retributive crap during the war.



I am afraid you got me there on that one. Got to do some research to figure that one out.

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wer

Well, I don't really want to start political battle here. But:
How many Israeli civilians were killed by Hezbollah terrorists? (the count continues as terrorists keep firing rockets at Israel)
Terrorist are well known for using civilians as human shields. And exagerating. They ARE masters of media manipulation.
Others in that area have the right to exist indeed. But they made their everyday business to try to destroy Israel.
And what would be "appropriate response" let me ask?
I've never heard about even single terrorist group being dismantled after diplomatic negotiations.

As for "Palestinians" - that whas rhetorical question. I know the answer

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"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist" Dom Helder Camara

Sorry if I came across as being confrontational or challenging, was not intended.
I have to agrree with you about the Hezbollah they have always been a internationally recognized and self anointed terrorist organization. THey have personally taken responsibility for many terrorist acts over the past decade. But going to war with lebanon will not eradicate the Hezbollah or many of the other factions opposed to the Israelites. Hezbollah believes in no fundamental separation of church and state, that is the belief of many if not all islamic nations. Ayatollah Khomeini followers founded the hezbollah in the early 1980 to support his Shia ideology. Since then and now the ideology has spread to many islamic countries. Certainely Iran, Lebanon, Eygpt, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Afganistan and a host of other countries in that area. What I am trying to say, this is a very deep seated problem, these skirmishes with Lebanon are not going to solve anything. The bombings and terrorist acts will continue, even if Israel should defeat Lebanon. As for dismantling terrorist groups you would have to alter the mentality of 80% of the population of that entire area. Essentially you have two completely different Ideologies trying to coexist side by side, and it's not working.
I guess to sum things up there isn't really an approriate response to that situation.

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wer

You got it right. The problems in the Middle East are intertwined and the solution is as far as my dreams of being sober again
But it's not Israel's fault. I guess, noone will argue with that. How many wars Israel started? Did Israel ever said that it's goal was to erradicate all Arab countries around it?
The problems mostly are religion related, hate towards Jews is deeply in the minds of Arabs (and not only Arabs). Hate towards infidels is a cornerstone of Islam. You got it right about different ideologies.

As for solution of Middle East problems - it's simple, yet unreacheable.
As Golda Meir said - There will be no peace unless Arabs will learn to love their children more than they hate Jews.

Back to Lebanon. It's too bad that hezbollah made this country it's home base. For decades they were terrorizing Israel, killing civilians. Finally Israel retalliates (familiar scenario). Now they do everything to portait Israel as an aggressor. Funny that this time I can see that the world isn't buying it that easily. Again, though, there is no easy way out of this mess. Less radical solution (and most useless) is for Israel to create a buffer zone north of it's border. Best (and most unlikely) is to just exterminate hesbollah by going through every yard of Lebanon territory. Again, Israel isn't fighting Lebanon so the term "defeat Lebanon" is slightly inaccurate. But having less terrorists in the area will certainly help Israel's security.
Well, looks like we are doing some political discussion after all. So in advance I'd like to apologize if my views offend someone. Hey, you cannot make a forum omlette without breaking some eggs!

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"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist" Dom Helder Camara

I support Israel for standing upto these terrorist scumbags. The reason why so many civilians have died is that Hezbollah hide themselves amongst the population like the spinelesss people that they are.

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Exactly!
Terrorists are using human shields all the time! That's why UN post was hit. Reports say that there were hezbollah's bandits everywhere around the post. I wouldn't be surprized if we learn that they were INSIDE the post during attack too. After all - terrorists are known for using ambulances to move weapons too. And what UN is doing there to begin with? All they do so far is supporting and hiding terrorists. That was the case in Yugoslavia, that looks like the case now in Lebanon.

And as always - I have no sympathy for those animals who fill rockets with ball bearings and metal shards to inflict more damge on civilians in Israel, I have no sympathy for the barbarians who were shooting children in Beslan, I have no sympathy for beasts that were throwing new-born babies out of hospital windows in Chechnya!

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"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist" Dom Helder Camara